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Food of the Other 5000 

Here is an idea. Humbly offered.  It was inspired by David C. Smalley’s podcast, The Dogma Debate.  Please note that I am not writing this to prove the idea.  I’m just sharing it.  I hope this promotes further understanding through civil discourse.  I am willing to change my mind if I become convinced of a fuller understanding of the topic.

 

Smalley asks good questions about Christianity and religion in general. Hard questions.  The kind of questions that should never be ‘off-the-table’ or ‘under-the-carpet’ for decent human beings.  Questions such as, ‘How could you worship a god who commanded his followers to kill innocent children?’  Or ‘Why would a loving god take on a human form and then say that he did not come to bring peace into the world but rather a sword?’  Or ‘Why would the creator of the universe leave slavery off the list of forbidden things?’  Smalley has many good, valid questions. He is a stand-up comic, so ridicule for the sake of a good joke is not off the table (thank God), but the main theme of the show is to ask questions in a civil, respectful, conversational format.

 

I believe his questions and concerns are sincere.  I believe him when he says that he has wrestled with and researched these questions over many years with an openness to change his mind, whether he likes the answers or not if the evidence supports it.

He calls himself an “agnostic atheist” and a Secular Humanist.  I am a paid subscriber of the show and I have encouraged others to do so.

 

Yet, I believe that Jesus of Nazareth died and rose from the dead. I believe that the Nicene Creed is accurate enough for me to recite and profess in my church every week.  I believe that Jesus of Nazareth is consubstantial (of the same substance, nature, or essence) with the “maker of all things, visible and invisible”.  I haven’t always believed this.  I am 57 years old.  I’ve had various levels of belief and/or unbelief throughout my life. My parents were a Lutheran pastor and a bible teacher.  I became a Catholic after leaving “organized religion” for about 10 years.

 

Smalley’s Dogma Debate challenged me to take a deeper look at the reason for my belief. I was surprised when I came up with a reason that I have not heard addressed on his show (I probably missed it).  I also don’t recall it being addressed in the Christian apologetics I have heard or read (which is probably more of a reflection of my ignorance than originality).  I seriously doubt I am out ahead of the apologists with anything new, but it’s a new clarity for me.  I am thankful to Smalley for the challenge

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Well, Here’s the Idea

 

I’m guessing that there are about 5,000 reasons why I believe the above.  I’m guessing, and I mean really guessing, that there are about 5,000 reasons.  This number could be off by several thousand. While I’m guessing at the number, I believe there is an actual, finite number of reasons.  None of these reasons are theoretical, or abstract in any way.  These reasons are human beings (in so far as a human being can be considered a reason for a belief).  They are human beings who lived during the time that Jesus of Nazareth (“Yeshua”, in his native language) was reported to have lived in a physical human form on earth about 2,000 years ago.  Here is how I came up with 5,000.

 

I’ll ‘do the numbers’ in list form.  I refer to these people as if they existed and the stories about them are accurate.  I am not claiming that they all existed.  If some of them are fictitious characters, the total is less than 5000.  If they are all fictitious, my belief is wrong.

 

If you are not familiar with the stories told in the New Testament of the Bible, please feel free to skip to the end of the list.  You don’t need to know the stories to understand the idea.    

 

  • Some of Yeshua’s immediate, intimate, family – somewhere between 2 to maybe 10 or so - including siblings, grandparents, aunts, or uncles.  Let’s say 5.

 

  • Some of the people who knew him for the thirty years or so before the last three years prior to his death.  Folks in the community, friends, teachers, and mentors.  Let’s keep this figure low and estimate maybe 3-4 a year for 30 years, that’s about 100.

 

  • A few shepherds.  That would be at least 3.

 

  • Simeon and Anna, religious figures at the time.

 

  • Twelve Disciples of Yeshua.

 

  • The Centurion whose daughter was reportedly healed.

 

  • The woman at the well.

 

  • Two sisters named Mary and Martha.

 

  • A man named Lazarus who died and was reportedly brought back to life by Yeshua.

 

  • The young girl who was reportedly ‘awakened’ by Yeshua when she was thought to be dead.

 

  • A few people at the wedding when Yeshua reportedly turned water into wine.  Say another 3.

 

  • The woman who was reportedly healed after she touched the hem of whatever garment Yeshua was wearing one day.

 

  • The person who reportedly had a donkey ready for Yeshua to ride into Jerusalem.

 

  • The man named Zacchaeus who Yeshua reportedly called down from a tree and had dinner with one day.

 

  • A few soldiers who were guarding Yeshua’s tomb when Yeshua reportedly rose from the dead. Let’s say 3.

 

  • Some of the people in the crowd when Yeshua reportedly fed about 5,000 people with only 5 fish and 2 loaves of bread.  I think at least 10 people out of the 5,000.

 

  • Some of the people who reportedly heard Yeshua teach at the temple in Jerusalem.  Maybe another 10.

 

  • I am not a bible scholar – I know I am forgetting a lot of the stories and people mentioned in the Christian scriptures.  So, I’ll add another 5 or so.

 

I think we are up to about 150.

 

Here is the big number.  Out of all the crowds and entire towns of people who reportedly heard Yeshua teach, were healed from physical ailments, infirmities, and afflictions over the three years prior to and after his reported death and resurrection, I guess there would have been at least 3-5 people a day on average.  I figure that to be between 3285 – 5475 people.

 

So, to make it a nice round number that works into a good title for this idea, I named them “The 5000”.  The number is reminiscent of the story of Yeshua’s “Feeding of the Five Thousand”.

 

Why are these 5000 people my reasons to believe?

 

They interacted with Yeshua personally.  These people reportedly claimed to have experienced intimate irrefutable proof, directly from Yeshua, of the truth of the events that were then told from person to person and ended up being summarized in the Nicene Creed (AD 325).

 

They were the humans for whom Yeshua passed what I call the “Thomas Test”.

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The Thomas Test

 

Thomas, it is said, was a disciple in the most intimate circle of people receiving Yeshua’s direct teaching. It is reported that Thomas witnessed Yeshua perform many miracles.  It is also reported that Thomas and the other disciples had been sent out by Yeshua on missions to the surrounding towns to tell other people about him and did miracles of healing in Yeshua’s name. 

 

The story goes that Yeshua died and came back to life three days after his body had been sealed in a tomb.  Shortly thereafter, he reportedly appeared to a group of the disciples at a time when Thomas was not present.  When the disciples who had met with Yeshua told Thomas that Yeshua was in fact alive, Thomas reportedly told them that he could never believe it until he personally saw and touched Yeshua again.  About eight days later, according to the story, Yeshua appeared to his disciples again and this time Thomas was there.  It is said that Yeshua asked Thomas to touch the wounds on his body so Thomas could believe it was true that he was alive again.  That is The Thomas Test.  Thomas reportedly replied, “My Lord and my God!”.  

 

If the story is true, I am eternally grateful to Thomas for telling others what he desperately needed so that he could believe Yeshua was alive again and was his Lord and God.  It gives me great clarity and comfort to understand that Thomas, who reportedly had spent a substantial amount of time physically near Yeshua, who was personally taught by him, observed miracles, and even performed miracles himself in Yeshua’s name, still could not believe that Yeshua was alive again until Yeshua proved it to him personally.  

 

I figure there were about 5000 people for whom Yeshua passed the Thomas Test.

 

I believe, because of those 5000 people, that Jesus of Nazareth died and rose from the dead, and I believe the Nicene Creed is accurate enough for me to recite and profess. Those 5000 people retold their story to people who, without the benefit of having Yeshua pass the Thomas Test directly for them, nonetheless, trusted the person enough to feel obligated to pass on this incredible news as historical fact and not as a myth.  Some wrote the stories down.  Written stories, to the extent that they are accurate, help to support my belief, but they are not why I believe.  What feeds and sustains my belief are “The 5000” and the words that passed from them to me.

 

The accuracy of my belief is bound to the accuracy of the communication from the 5000 passing from person to person to AD 325.

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Another Calculation

 

Starting from when Yeshua reportedly passed the Thomas Test with the 5000, if one of them passed the news accurately to just one other person in their lifetime, assuming a lifetime of 45 years for each person, it would take about 7 people to reach AD 325.

 

Do I believe that 7 people could accurately convey a 20-item grocery list from generation to generation over 325 years?  No.  Do I believe they could accurately convey the information contained in the Nicene Creed if they had complete confidence in the person who conveyed it to them, and they believed it contained the way for all humans to live forever in joy and to eliminate all human suffering?  Yes.  That is a reasonable hope.

 

I am not convinced by the great Christian scholars or writers.  I am not convinced by Thomas Aquinas’ Summa or GK Chesterton’s Orthodoxy.

Aquinas and Chesterton help me understand the beauty, the agony, the impossibility and the joy of my belief. They teach me what to do with my belief.  But all three of us have the same reasons to believe the impossible claims of The 5000.

 

I am not convinced buy the torture reportedly suffered by many of The 5000.  I am not convinced by the faith of Bartholomew, who was reportedly skinned alive.  Madmen will suffer the same for less.  It is noble and commands attention, gratitude, even veneration.  It points the way, but it is not proof of the impossible.

 

The only ‘proof of the impossible’ I can imagine is the Thomas Test.  It is something that could only happen one on one.  The proof is in the experience itself.  The impossible would then be transformed into the possible.  Yeshua has not passed the Thomas Test for me.  Not yet.  I cannot prove he passed it for The 5000.  I profess they said he did.  I believe them. Dozens of my ancestors passed this claim to me, I am passing it on to the next generation.  I live as if it is true. 

 

 

“The Way.”

 

The 5000 reportedly claimed Yeshua rearranged their perception of what is and is not possible.  They named this rearrangement “The Way”.  They called themselves the followers of “The Way”.  The Way was reportedly linked to Yeshua and only happened in his presence. It reportedly had a lot to do with healing, truth, suffering, forgiveness, humility, and love.  It was reportedly a “spiritual kingdom” that was somehow connected to our world of experience but not limited to it.  The 5000 reportedly did all they could to pass this impossible belief on to me. I am grateful for them. I believe them.

 

The people convince me; the 5000.  They are the remnants of the touch that Yeshua purportedly offered to Thomas. They are the remnants of the touch of a single frayed fiber of the hem of Yeshua’s garment; a touch stolen by an outcast woman in the crowd as he passed her by.  The touch, it is said, stopped her chronic bleeding.

 

I feel that it is reasonable that the story and claims of the 5000 could have been passed accurately to AD 325.  I also feel that the story and claims of the 5000 are impossible by every measure of my experience as a human being, so far.  I trust the 5000 and at least 7 people since they lived.  I feel it is a reasonable trust.  Just common sense really.  If something so ultimately important had happened, humans could remember it that long.  I have heard it said, and I think it is true, that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.  I just humbly add that extraordinary events are extraordinarily memorable.  But if they were wrong then I am wrong.

 

 

 

Into the Mystic

 

False things that sound crazy when you say them are just false. With that in mind, I propose the following as a definition of “mystic”; mystic things are true things that sound crazy when you say them.  Followers of Yeshua, or “Christians” who believe Yeshua rose bodily from the dead participate is a mystic religion.  In Catholic lingo we use the term “The mystical body of Christ” a lot. I feel it is important for me to remember that what I believe sounds crazy. This requires fierce humility. Because I do not know, with certainty, if it is true. It is reported that Yeshua told his followers “Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls” (Matthew 11.29).

 

 

More Than Reasonable

 

Let’s pause.  Please remember, I am not writing this to prove my idea.  I am just sharing it.  That is very important for us both to remember if we are to step further in understanding.  This is the edge, the outer boarder, of my understanding about Yeshua.  I am sharing it in the hope of furthering my understanding about him. 

 

Believing the impossible is not reasonable.  But it is not necessarily beneath reason.  Above, I wrote that I have a “reasonable trust”, I also have a relational trust of the 5000. It is built upon reason.  It is not ‘blind’ trust held despite, or below reason.  Relational trust is that which is demanded, after the satisfaction of a person’s reason, for a relationship to go deeper. We can experience relational trust with things and with people. 

 

Relational trust in things is the kind of trust we have in some object at that point when we interact with it even though there is a risk of harm, even death, to us or someone else.  Like the first-time riding in a self-driving car when we let it stop itself.  Here is a good example from a PBS News Hour segment (see 8:15).

 

Relational trust in people is the kind of trust we have in another person after we befriend them at a deep level.  The kind of trust demonstrated when our friend shares something personal that we can’t verify but we believe “without seeing”.  Not blindly.  Because it makes sense with what we have learned and observed about them in the relationship to that point.  Bishop Robert Barron describes it well in a YouTube video here (see about 3:40)

 

I have a relational trust in the 5000.

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Good News

 

The 5000 could have been wrong, and they could have been liars.  There are even arguments that Yeshua and the 5000 never existed.  If that’s true, it would be smart to be standing with David Smalley and the Secular Humanists.  They appear to me, for the most part, to be fun, exciting, and adventurous people.  I’d stand with them and join forces to reduce human suffering, to overcome the challenges of ageing, and the limits of my consciousness and the consciousness of the humans around me.  But come to think of it, what is more likely is that I would be a Pagan Humanist (I think I just made that up) because I love mysticism. 

 

Here is some good news; I don’t have to wait for Yeshua to pass the Thomas Test for me. I believe because I can, and I respect those to whom the impossible remains sensibly impossible.  The humility of following The Way requires that I not impose my belief on others.  I join with them to reduce human suffering.  I do not discount any of Smalley’s hard questions.  I share many of them. I love to civilly discuss them, to wrestle with them. I expect answers.  I expect Yeshua to answer them.  I expect that will not happen before I die. 

 

The story of Yeshua, through the words of the 5000, was told by my ancestors for many generations. My parents, Peter, and Corinne taught it to me.  Quite a few years ago, I drove to visit my mother in the hospital during the last days of her life.  I lingered by her bed as long as I could before I had to return home to my family and work.  When she was awake, we would chat and reminisce sweetly.  Once, she touched my hand and whispered, “Well, now it is time for Jesus to fulfill his promises.”  Her ancestor’s faith left my mother hungry for, and certain of, the impossible joy of touching Jesus, I too hunger for Yeshua.  Our belief is fed by the word of the 5000.

Do not copy or reproduce without permission ©2024 Seth Wegher-Thompson

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